COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
Hello all,
my perception of storing data to COMMON_DOCUMENTS was until now, that ALL
users, and I mean ALL, either Admins or Normalos, can run a program that
reads and _writes_ data stored in C:\Documents and Settings\All
Users\Documents.
But I was proofed wrong!
I built an install that does perfectly puts my TPS into this
COMMON_DOCUMENTS.
Unfortunately I cannot run this install as a standard user, it requires
admin permissions when using XP.
Under Vista (business) a standard user can run this install without any
problem.
When called as admin (under XP) it installs the EXE into C:\program
files\myProject.
I have expected now that if any user calls this EXE he/she/it would have
READWRITE permissions on the data files.
But its not that way under XP, other than the often scolded Vista - now I
wonder why - what did I get wrong over the time?
Thank you for any input
Wolfgang
--
Grüße / Regards
Wolfgang Orth
http://www.odata.de
Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
Hi Wolfgang,
> Unfortunately I cannot run this install as a standard user, it requires
> admin permissions when using XP.
Then you, or something, have changed security permissions to this folder
under XP. I use COMMON_DOCUMENTS in various installs and never had problems
with it on XP or vista. For the past month I have been doing almost daily
tests on both XP and Vista with a program that uses subfolder in
COMMON_DOCUMENTS. Never seen issue with it.
Best regards,
--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com
Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
I'd guess your XP users are either Administrators (which most home users
are) or Power Users.
Test your app on a clean XP machine with more than one ordinary user account
(see my post to Wolfgang about the creator owner catch).
Jane
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
> Hi Wolfgang,
>
> On 18 Dec 2008 17:04:04 -0500, Wolfgang Orth wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately I cannot run this install as a standard user, it requires
>> admin permissions when using XP.
>
> Then you, or something, have changed security permissions to this folder
> under XP.
no, definately not! I tested this on several machines, even a fresh
installed XP
When I right-click on a TPS I see that it is not write-protected.
The folder ha no write-protect when I look ate ht eproperties while I am
Admin, but when I am a User the mark for write-protection is checked.
Which does not matter because I can run my EXE as Admin, and all is
well..... no its NOT! <grmmml>
> I use COMMON_DOCUMENTS in various installs and never had problems with
> it on XP or vista.
On Vista ist okay, but the EXE has no manifest right now <sigh>
thx any and see you later, Arnor
bye
Wolfgang
--
Grüße / Regards
Wolfgang Orth
http://www.odata.de
Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/
1 Attachment(s)
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
Yes.
And no.
All users *can* write within COMMON_DOCUMENTS, but on XP there's a catch (as
I described in a clarionmag article:
http://www.clarionmag.com/cmag/v9/v9n08vista4.html) -
Permissions are set so that "creator owner" has full control of a document.
This means that Betty can create a document and save it in COMMON_DOCUMENTS.
Bill can read Betty's document, but can't modify it unless he's a power user
or an administrator.
If Joe runs your app and it creates TPS files in that folder, other
"regular" XP users won't be able to modify it.
See attached excerpt from Microsoft's Vista Resource Kit. Ordinary users
have Write permission to the FOLDER, but not to files within it. So they
can create a file (which makes them the creator owner for that file), but
cannot modify other peoples' files.
Jane
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
Hi Jane,
> See attached excerpt from Microsoft's Vista Resource Kit. Ordinary users
> have Write permission to the FOLDER, but not to files within it. So they
> can create a file (which makes them the creator owner for that file), but
> cannot modify other peoples' files.
Since XP's users are admins by default I'm not sure this is a (big) issue
for most home users.
The article you pointed to talks only about vista and I don't think this is
an issue under Vista. At least my test with admin and regular user accounts
seem to work fine under vista using subfolders in CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS.
But... What is a program to do? What can be done if you hit a computer
with XP where the user is not admin/power user and does not have write
permission?
Best regards,
--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com
Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php
2 Attachment(s)
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
XP users may be admins by default on a home machine. But I guarantee you
that XP users in an Active Directory domain in a business environment are
NOT admins by default <g>.
As for "what's a program to do"... a major purpose of my driving to LA in
early 2007 for a Vista rollout for developers MS thing was to ask that very
question. The idiot woman said "you can look that up on MSDN". Yeah,
right.
What you COULD do is have your elevated installer create your own data
folder within COMMON_DOCUMENTS.
Then use SB's Set Access Control script item to give EVERYONE full control
to that folder.
Attached is a script that I ran on an XP machine. Attached screen shot
shows that it did create a folder and give Everyone Full Control.
To test it, I created x.txt using my account. Then logged on as a different
ordinary user and was able to modify it successfully.
Jane
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
Hi Jane,
> What you COULD do is have your elevated installer create your own data
> folder within COMMON_DOCUMENTS.
> Then use SB's Set Access Control script item to give EVERYONE full control
> to that folder.
> Attached is a script that I ran on an XP machine. Attached screen shot
> shows that it did create a folder and give Everyone Full Control.
> To test it, I created x.txt using my account. Then logged on as a different
> ordinary user and was able to modify it successfully.
Thank you very much for the script. But...<g> If we need to set the
permission on the subfolder for XP (I presume this is XP only since I have
not had problems with this with vista testing), then it seems to me that we
are back to COMMON_APPDATA looking promising. You just need to set the
read/write access for everyone there under vista (and perhaps XP too?)
It looks to me that this is now starting to point more to using that folder
rather than COMMON_DOCUMENTS, and just set the permission to it for
everyone. I'm talking about just general datafile (read .TPS files etc)
HMMMMM....!
Best regards,
--
Arnór Baldvinsson - Icetips Creative, Inc.
Port Angeles, Washington
www.icetips.com - www.buildautomator.com
Icetips product subscriptions at http://www.icetips.com/subscribe.php
1 Attachment(s)
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
Yes, on Vista there are different permissions and COMMON_DOCUMENTS works.
As Wolfgang reported - his problem was only with XP users.
Yes, the excerpt I posted previously addressed XP - which was his issue.
The attached excerpt from the Vista RK addresses this kind of data sharing
on a Vista machine.
Jane
Re: COMMON_DOCUMENTS - What did I get wrong on these?
Jane,
> Yes.
> And no.
BOOM!
Thanks for your insight, thanks a real lot! You saved me from drifting
into insanity....
I have had read your article way back then, but under an other aspect and
this topic finally slipped away.
My experience so far with Vista is (only a few late night tests) that it
works quite well. Its XP that is so cumbersome.
As I have no clue where and on what kind of system my software will be
installed and I do not know how many different user will have access over
the network I have to consider all and everything from Win98 to nowadays.
So I will try to make an install that stores the TPS depending on the OS.
IF %WINVWER% prior Vista store TPS to COMMON_DOCUMENTS\myProject\data
ELSE store TPS to PROGRAM_FILE\myProject\data
As long as a single user on one machine or even several user, with a
separate account, on one machine there seems no problem with this storing
strategy.
But what if an EXE is placed somewhere on a "central device" (Server) and
many clients have got some links on ther desktop to run this exe.
C:\Program Files\myProject\Data was the perfect palce in the past.
Last question: are there any other new rules'o'thumb for an explicit
network project?
Or will we continue as before, as long as we consider to use COM_DOC for
Vista etc and the old fashioned for XP and prior?
Sounds like this could be a suitable way then.
thx again
Wolfgang
--
Grüße / Regards
Wolfgang Orth
http://www.odata.de
Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/